Official Luthiers Forum!

Anybody have a tracing or pattern for a standard 12 fret Martin style 00.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Whoa deja vu!

I was looking for the exact same thing last week (Furtive 00-12 Fret Grand Concert plans)and Steve Kinnaird graciously offered to send me a tracing of his original (elongated) 00 12 fret. I would love to pass on the good karma so would have no problem having a couple of copies made. Just send me an e-mail or a PM with your mailing address.

Cheers,
Jeremy
JeremyC38491.4965509259

Jeremy, would you mind sending me one too? Let me know the mailing cost and I will send it to you.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

um - would it be to much if I jumped on the band wagon and asked for a copy as well?

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I have no problem sending copies. Anything that I can do to give back to the forum is something I want to do. Just as Steve laughed in my face when I suggested I could send him payment I laugh in yours! (I apologize in advance to those who despise having laughs tossed in their faces. I mean no disrespect.)

Just send me an e-mail or PM with your address and when the tracing arrives I’ll send them out.

Cheers,
Jeremy

Mucho appreiciated Jeremy, I just PM'd you

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

[QUOTE=JeremyC] I have no problem sending copies. Anything that I can do to give back to the forum is something I want to do. Just as Steve laughed in my face when I suggested I could send him payment I laugh in yours! [/QUOTE]

Jeremy, that was a whimper of pain. Actually, before you painted me so altruistically, I was seeing a small cottage industry here, sending out tracings of my 00. But now--no dice! (Just kidding--don't ya know?)

Guys, if you need a tracing, instead of a copy of a tracing, I'll do for you what I did for Jeremy. It really is a lovely shape, and a nice offering for your customers.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Including myself, there have been five people who have expressed an interest in the 00 12 fret.

I started my search looking for an acrylic template a la LMI, and am wondering if now we can’t figure something out. Tracing are great but would anyone be interested in a template? Maybe it’s time to call a friendly local CNC cutter.

Cheers,
Jeremy

What I want to do is build it as a 13 fret model but I like the shape and the guitar I have been calling a 00 is just my own design that is about that size so I wanted to try one that is the traditional shape instead.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I have both body tracings...the 12 and 14 fret OO if anyone needs a copy.

[QUOTE=HankMauel] I have both body tracings...the 12 and 14 fret OO if anyone needs a copy.[/QUOTE]

Hank,
I'd like them if you're willing. Thanks..

Mark

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Mark Joy

mjoy Guitars

[QUOTE=John How] What I want to do is build it as a 13 fret model but I like the shape and the guitar I have been calling a 00 is just my own design that is about that size so I wanted to try one that is the traditional shape instead.[/QUOTE]

John, there is a fellow Texas luthier who built a 00 (traced from my guitar) and made it into a 13 fret version. The guitar was very successful--loud and sweet, and a bit easier to play w/ that 1 "extra" fret.
You'll love it.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve, I've seen a couple of these 13 fret guitars and thought I'd give it a try. I'm thinking also of increasing the depth for a lower resonant cavity frequencey. I hadn't realized that there is a different shape for the 12 and 13 fet models. Do you know how much difference there is. Is it similar to the difference in the 000/OM models? I was going to use the short scale 24.9" but may consider the 25.4" if it helps locate the bridge more in the middle. I think I'll try to stop by Hanks shop in the next week or so and check the shape.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

John--now I'm a bit confused. I didn't think there was a difference in length / shape betwixt the 12 fret and 13 fret. With my friend's guitar there wasn't. He just slapped a longer neck on the longer body, and there you go. (Ok, he had to move the bridge forward [forward shift] to accomodate the shift in nut position. NOW there you go.)
I should add: my guitar, the 12 fret, uses the long scale. I think the longer length puts too much energy into this guitar. I can't strum this thing--there's just too much power coming into that small box, and the thing is too easy to overdrive. It really is a finger picker. Perhaps it was constructed with just that in mind.
So you could use the longer scale--with the 13 fret neck--but be aware that you will probably have a "barker" on your hands. Steve Kinnaird38492.6899537037

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve, How do you think this guitar (w/ the longer scale) would play in dropped tunings? Specifically, DGDGBD tuning? Do you think the dropped tuning along with the longer scale would work for fingerpicking and strumming?

TIA

Roy

Roy I've tried doing that a bit and it was successful. Good point.

Steve

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve
I went to Hanks shop Friday and he has a couple of different outlines for the 00 size guitar. They are similar to the differences in the OM and the 000 12fretter. The box on the 14 fret is somewhat shorter and flatter where the heel joins. By the way I played Hanks guitar and wow, it sure sounds nice. That may have something to do with his expertise at building, ya think and the fact that it was a nice addy top and Brazilian RW back and sides.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

[QUOTE=John How]
By the way I played Hanks guitar and wow, it sure sounds nice. That may have something to do with his expertise at building, ya think...[/QUOTE]

Ya, I do think! Hank could probably make balsa and tin foil sound good.

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] [QUOTE=John How]
By the way I played Hanks guitar and wow, it sure sounds nice. That may have something to do with his expertise at building, ya think...[/QUOTE]

Ya, I do think! Hank could probably make balsa and tin foil sound good. [/QUOTE]

I REALLY prefer Saran Wrap!

[QUOTE=John How] Steve
I went to Hanks shop Friday and he has a couple of different outlines for the 00 size guitar. [/QUOTE]

Hank, Which body do you use when making a 13 fret 00?

Um, when you're using tonewood and not saran wrap that is.

I'm going to do a little overlay of each to see which will work the best. I think asthetically I like the 12 fret best but the 14 fret may put the bridge in a better position in the 13 fret mode. Also I can play around with the scale length to get what I want.

I'm thinking that the 12 fret model with the short scale configured as a 13 fret may work. Or mayhaps I'll just build a 12 fret.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

[QUOTE=Roy O] [QUOTE=John How] Steve
I went to Hanks shop Friday and he has a couple of different outlines for the 00 size guitar. [/QUOTE]

Hank, Which body do you use when making a 13 fret 00?

Well...that's a loaded question. It would depend on what scale length I was going to use, among other variables..
Let me explain it this way. I built a 13 fret OOO one time and we used the traditional 12 fret OOO body shape...the longer version, not "OM" shaped. To keep the bridge in the "sweetspot", we used a 25.7" scale with light gauge strings as original design. The customer ended up using the instrument in dropped tuning most of the time, so he ended up using mediums, with the lower tension of drop tuning offsetting the greater tension that would have be present at "concert pitch" with the mediums.

So...with a 24.9 scale, I would (usually) definitely stay with the 12 fret body. If I went up to a 25.4 scale, then it would depend on the customer's intended use/what they desired to get out of the instrument. That would be what steered me to either a 12 or 14 fret body, so I would include the 13 fret neck in this descision process. A 25.7 scale would definitely use the 14 fret body, and possibly include the 13 fret neck format, again assessing customer desire/need.

You see, it's all going to depend on what you want to get from the instrument and the player's desires/needs.

That said, the one John How saw and played was a 14 fret body/neck combo with a 24.9 scale, VERY thin neck and light gauge strings. The customer has to deal with some aging fingers (read arthritis)and this combo was the easiest on his left hand. And it is loud, very clear note definition and great sustain. It's Braz/adirondack, slothead and has 2 CF rods in the thin neck for stability. The neck is copied from an Ibanez electric and is called the "Wizard" profile. So it basically contradicts what I spelled out earlier, until you get to "customer desires/needs". Then you adapt and use your experience to spec out the instrument.

Hope that verbose explanation is of some help.

Thanks Hank. Now if I may be so bold as to follow up one loaded question with another loaded question.

I'm looking to build a guitar for myself next winter. I play fingerstyle dropped tuning with some light strumming on medium strings. In the past I've read posts by both you and Sylvan on how nice the 13 fret 00s are and so would like to try to build one myself. I was thinking 25.4" scale to accomodate the dropped tuning.

Any suggestions/recommendations? Which body type would you think would be best?

TIA,

Roy

Roy -
I build on a regular basis a 13 fret "00". Pictures of one of them are at my
website. Let's throw another wrinkle in the picture. I use a 25.4" scale with
21 frets (not 20)-moving the soundhole back as far as possible. This forces
the bridge position back into place very much like a classical instrument. I
believe that this placement of the bridge greatly expands the sound and
capabilities of the instrument. They are terrific fingerpickers but also have a
tremendous punch when played with a pick. This is probably my favorite
type of steel string guitar and I really enjoy building them!

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com